Negotiating with the sellers
 

This is my question.

I don't know if it's better to start a dispute or contact the seller first.
I guess it's better to email the seller, and if things fail (no further progress/customer ignored) then start the dispute.
I wanted to know what you guys told the seller; what did you ask for and what did you got.

Is a full refund the thing to ask? Perhaps pay half the price?
I'd like to have a real 2GB player instead of my hacked one (2GB to 1GB), can I ask him to send me one if he has (I'd prefer not to take a 2nd chance, though)? Perhaps send mine and get a full refund?
I'm not very sure what to do, I've been searching the threads but I don't seem to come across any answer.
Thanks in advance! :wink:

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

I've been discussing with the pirate (errr... I mean seller) during those days about what can be done to solve the issue. He responds to emails but doesn't change his position a bit. After much talk, it seems there are those options:
- Send it back and get a refund.
- Send it back and change it.
- Accept 10€ for compensation.

Do you find that reasonable? I think 10€ is too litle, no matter what his mp3 cost. Sending it will cost about 25€, and I don't have any reason to believe it would come back with the promised memory (if it came at all). He refuese to pay the shipping, so I won't pay it for him.
I think I should ask for a higher compensation, and if I got a negative for that, then start a dispute, but I'm not so sure it's s the best way to go.

Also, I'm kind of worried about my votes; I have a few and when I vote him he will surely give me a bad rating. I saw that votes can be withdrawn, but is it as easy as it looks?
I'm a bit stuck, but I don't want that unscrupulous seller to walk away happily after this.

E72! , what was the advertised and actual memory size? And how much did you pay for your player?

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

The memory should be 2GB, but it's actually 1GB. The "seller" insists it's an error, but there are several labels over the envelope and player which show 2GB (probably came hacked from factory). His name is also in one of the mp3 guides as a professional scammer (I was lucky enough to get at least some decent memory). It cost me about 33€ (55€ with shipping), while the 1GB is 25€. Hope that helps!

E72! , from what i see of it, currently you have 3 options:

1. Accept the 10€ partial refund if you are satisfied with the 1GB capacity.

2. Demand for more refund, i'll suggest you search in ebay for other 1GB by other sellers and determine the average end price. Then ask for the price difference back.

3. Send the player back. But you'll probably only get back your purchase price of 33€. 22€ for shipping is absurd!

If the seller does not want to increase the partial refund amount, and you really want to go with option 2, then you would need to open a dispute with ebay or paypal (if you used it).

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Yup, I had tought that too.
1) I feel 10€ is not enough considering the money they sell by cheating 1GB to all those buyers.
2) I think 15€ is the minimum I should ask for. I haven't started a dispute yet, may be time to start one.
3) Sending the player back I'll lose 20€ anyways; no way I'll send it back. The seller doesn't want to pay the shipping, and I certainly won't.

Will ask him to raise the refund or I will open a dispute. I'm a bit worried about the vote though, I want to give him a big red and notify potential buyers, but that will surely mean another one for me, and I've got very few votes (not even 5 :evil: ) so it will be quite significant. Can you always withdrawn those votes? Thanks!

No. Feedbacks are for life. That's what's great about that. Put a mark on your caledar to give him a feedback 89 days after the auction, or at the very last minute (90 days). By the time he notices what hit him, it'll be too late for him to feedback you. Open a dispute with Paypal NOW. Then tell him you'll close the dispute if he pays you what you want.

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Hey, that 89-day wait is a nice tip! Will do that for sure. I will have to chose the text very carefully, as it must be informative and persuasive.

Too bad I am a weakling and asked for at least 15€. :evil: :evil:
I guess he will say no (I really hope he does), then I'll open dispute and ask for 20€. If he agrees... hmm I could still force things and push him to the 20€, but that will make it all harder.
Anyway, I should have asked for more the first time.

PD: I've just gone to check when it's that 90 day limit, and guess what? A guy I bought a cheap mp3-fm convertor from (+30000 votes, powerseller too) is unregistered now. Great news, since I was contacting him regarding the poor quality of the item (he was answering my emails though). Damn, I'm so upset with those ******** and myself, first two buys, two scams. :evil: From now on, not even a single item from Asia EVER.

PD2: Is there any way to make ebay and paypal give me my money back, or is it too late now (at least a month since I bought them...).

E72!

It may be cheaper and less stressful to accept what the seller is offering.
My seller (buy_lowest) offered me $6 US refund to settle a 1 gig hacked to 4 gig.
I chose to pursue with paypal and it cost me far more.

I ended up cutting my losses.

Paypal requires that you return the player to Paypal.

Any money spent by you to get confirmation of the hack and any return shipping is your cost.

That is why I am done with Paypal!
http://www.mympxplayer.org/im-done-w...al-vt3580.html

My idea is that it is better to accept the partial refund. Try to buy the mpX player cheap, and then accept a partial refund. Finally you will have the mpX player at a real bargain price.

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Another option on the Ebay Feedback,

I recently BLASTED a scammer "blown-z" with negative feedback:
Quote "FRAUD ALERT - Research this blacklisted MP4 Player before you bid - Seller aware"

He did exactly as I was warned on this site by adding this Feedback to my profile:
Quote "Reply by blown-z: Item as described. buyer doesnt read auction"

I don't think he can even spell, let alone read!

My solution was to cut and paste the link to my post in this forum.(excluding the http:// so that it would not be banned as a url from ebay)

Reply by ikegilbert: http://www.mympxplayer.org/blown-z-e...ay-vt3895.html

If anyone cares enough to understand, I figure they will cut and paste the url and see what the real issue was.

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Hello gentlemen,

I am offered 20€ and a positive vote in exchange for the scam. :roll:
Ok, so I'll give him a positive vote... But write something that may prevent others from being cheated anyway. I've told him to vote me positive too, but I don't expect a scammer to be true to his word.
Also, he told me that by mail. In paypal resolution, he again tells me to send him the item, but just in case, I'll copy everything and message him through paypal too.

I'm sorry for those of you that have realized paypal is the tool of all those pirates. I'm glad I could learn the lesson before it was too late. It's always helpful to know those cheats, should they ever be needed, and as we say in our country, "el que roba a un ladrón tiene cien años de perdón" ("who robs a thief is forgiven for a hundred years"), and I think it's the point here, if you get scammed, then you counter-attack without moral restrictions. If you can cheat him, better for you, it's a self-gained right.

Let's see how this all turns up. And I still have a claim filed against an unregistered user, that is sure going to be a "fun" experience with paypal. :evil:
Thanks for the tips! Will try to get the most from them.

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

I received my '1GB' mp4 player today.

I bought it from 'Aaliyah's Bargains' on ebay.

This is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...9278&rd=1&rd=1

I attached it to my pc and formatted it and found that it wasn't 1GB and was only 469mb!

Another two issues where that the mp4 player doesn't have an fm radio (which the seller states in the auction that it does) and the headphones don't work properly (only one of them works, and they look dead cheap!)

I have just sent the seller a message (on ebay so it can be tracked if needed) saying this:

Hi, I received my mp4 player today.

I am very disappointed with it. After linking it to my pc and formatting it i found that the memory wasn't 1GB in actual fact the total memory is 469mb which would be you are selling HACKED players. I am also angry at the fact that you stated in the auction that the mp4 player had an FM Radio, which it doesn't. I am also angry at the fact that the headphones don't work.

Unless i hear back from you with a resolution by tomorrow morning i will have no choice but to inform ebay, paypal and the police. This is fraud and you have lied.

I await your response.

Once i get a response from the seller i will return here with the update.

Azza87

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

I finally got the refund I asked for (in the end, too little). :evil:
The other dispute was fully refunded.
So if you want to hear an advice, I'll give you mine:
1- Be polite but firm and let know the guy you know this is a scam, and unles your conditions are fulfilled, you'll take further actions.
2- If he starts giving excuses or doesn't answer, open a paypal dispute, and start again the discussion through paypal's mailing system. Make clear that you can take pics, post the manufacturer's chip specs, etc.
3- If he still doesn't want to solve things, elevate the dispute to claim, raise your conditions, and wait. Obviously, tell paypal you want to help as much as possible.

This is how I could get my money back, and it should work for you too.
Good luck! :wink:

Hi, Got a response from my seller. She has said this:

"Hi they are not Hacked, as we have sold many MP4 players and our supplier is a massive company in the UK. However it sounds like you have a factory faulty item, very sorry for that please send it back and we will send you new one ASAP.

Many Thanks
Allen"

According to his/her feedback they haven't sold mp4's before so think this is a poor excuse.

I need advice folks, what shall i say next?

azza87 , it depends on whether you are satisfied with the current actual memory capacity or not.

If you are, you could always ask for a partial refund. This saves you time, trouble & money for posting it back.

However, seems like many functions of your player is not working. So i'll suggest that you do send it back, as it would be hard to rectify all those problems you are facing.

I have another problem now. I put the player on charge last night, it was charging for around 4hours. When i tried to turn the player on it wouldn't come on. I've hooked it upto my pc to see if the pc can see it's connection and nothing.

My player is now dead just after charging it!

I want to send it back but there are risks in doing so. This will also cost me for the sellers lies! I could send it back and not get any money back at all. If these sellers are happy to try and scam people with these players they will try to con you in other ways also and theat's what is holding me back from returning it.

Just thought i would update what has happened... I sent this to the seller:

"Hi. I am not having that excuse. I've seen it come from many other hacked mp4 sellers over on the mympxplayer forums. I know for a fact that this was not made in the UK. you have imported it from China or Hong Kong. I also know for a fact that it is not due to a factory fault, you have hacked the mp4 player yourself to make more money. I don't want a new one as the quality of this one is just awful. For a start it is missing features you claimed it had such as the FM Radio and the headphones don't work. You'd better think of a resolution to this before tomorrow morning because i'll be reporting this to ebay, paypal and the police otherwise.

I do not want anymore excuses, i've seen them all before.

I await your response."

Well i didn't get a response so i did as promised and I have opened a dispute on paypal and escultated it to a claim. I've received the confirmation email from paypal. It confirms that there will be a $25 investigation fee for me to pay at the end of this.

I think the way paypal works is disgusting. These disputes are the crooks, i mean sellers faults, surely the sellers should be made to pay for the investigation and not the inocent victims, i mean buyers

Another update... I received this email from the seller this morning:

"HI
1-YOU SAD THE MP4 DASNT HAVE RADIO,
2-YOU OLSO SAD THE MP4 WOULDNT TURN ON,
SO IF THE MP4 PLAYER WOULDN'T TURN ON,HOW DID YOU FIEND OUT IT DAS NOT HAVE RADIO,
AND I DID ASK YOU TO SEND IT BACK BUT YOU DIDN'T,
SO DO NOT PLAY GAMES WITH ME I DONT HAVE TIME FOR ALL THIS DRAMA YOU ARE DOING.
MANY THANKS"

I am sorry, but i am not the one at fault here, just like all members of this forum that have been ripped off so i am not taking attitude from this crook. This was my reply to the seller:

"DON'T GIVE ME ATTITUDE!

I said the mp4 player didn't have fm radio - BECAUSE IT DOESN'T! I also said it doesn't have 1GB memory - BECAUSE IT DOESN'T!

You say charge for 3-4 hours, when i did this the player never came back on! So both things i have said are correct IT DOESNT HAVE A RADIO & AFTER FOLLOWING YOUR INSTRUCTIONS IT NO LONGER TURNS ON!

I said i wasn't going to pay to send it back and that i demanded that you pay for the return costs - after all this is all down to YOUR LIES. Of course you didn't reply to that message did you...

and you have the NERVE to give ME ATTITUDE?

Send my my money back on paypal now, including the return cost (you charged me £5.85 postage so i would think i would need the same to send it back) totalling £31.69 and i will close the dispute and send the mp4 player back to you tomorrow."

I then received this from the seller:

"HI
YOU SEND THE ITEM BACK AND I WILL SEND WHAT EVER YOU PAY INCLUDING POSTEG,
NOT £31.69 IT IS £27.92 OK,
WITH OUT BEING SMART."

If he can charge me £5.85 on postage to get the player, how would it cost me only £2.08 to return it to him?

I Sent this:

"How is it £27.92? If it cost me £5.85 to have the item sent to me surely it will cost the same for it to be sent back no?

It is going to cost more than £2.08 to send it back anyway, that is a fact.

Also, i am not being funny or anything but i am not sending it until i get my money back.

This is because you have already lied to me about the item so i do not trust you. Once the money is back in my paypal account i will send the item back to you.

If you don't do this today i will be leaving negative feedback and carry on the dispute with paypal and get my money back that way. If i carry on the dispute and paypal refunds my money i will have to send the item to them and not you, they will then pass the item onto the police and you will be done for fraud.

Just send it today, i will send the item back and close my dispute.

Thanks."

Haven;'t had a response yet but will keep all updated.

Thanks :)

I've just got a response from the seller!

Apparantly these Crooks, Con artists, Scammers or sellers haven't got time to spend dealing with people like me (an inoccent buyer...)

This is the hilarious response i just received:

"Hi Ok no problem, it is up to you, either send it back and get a refund or go to ebay or paypal and do what ever you want, I have already reported you to both companies.

Please do not contact me again, as I have a lot of work to do and can not spend all my time dealing with someone like you.

Many Thanks "

They have reported me to ebay and paypal, On what grounds? What have i done here?

It would be my pleasure to not have to contact them again but unfortunately i have to for this to be sorted out.

Hi Ok no problem, it is up to you, either send it back and get a refund or go to ebay or paypal and do what ever you want, I have already reported you to both companies.

"can not spend all my time dealing with someone like you."

Isn't that nice? I buy one of his products, find he's messed with it and catch him out and complain about it, demand a refund and then get told he's no time to spend talking to people like me!

What kind of person am i and all the other buyers on ebay? lol

"Many Thanks "

At least he/she tried being polite!

I have also noticed something quite odd about this. Have you noticed that compared to all of the previous replies, this one has no spelling mistakes at all?

It seems to me there is more than one person reading and replying to my emails...

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Azza87,
do not send item back, do not send mail seller anymore, just open a dispute on Ebay. Ebay will request from you a report from a local technical firm showing item is not as described. The resport should include photos of item, memory chip. the report should emphasize the chip ID number, the web link of that chip on samsung semiconductor site.
and wait for the result.

I am aware that i am going to be asked for a report for proof of the item not being as described but that is just going to cost me even more money.

I also do not want paypal to take $25 of my money for the sellers lies.

It just seems easier to me to send the item back (recorded & signed for delivery) and get my money back without having to pay anything extra.

I only paid £25.84 for this item, to have to pay $25 for the report and then to lose $25 to paypal i wont be gaining anything will i? approx 50p-£1 at the most, and thats if i win the dispute.

Thanks

azza87 , did you pay by credit card on paypal? If so, do a charge-back via your credit card company & claim back all the money. Give them all the proof of the hacked player (serial numbers), player dead after charging, seller not responding in a positive manner, etc etc.

Hi, How do i get all that proof? I am new to this and don't know how to get all the serial numbers etc I have tried getting inside the player but i can't.

How do i do a charge-back?

I didn't use a credit card, i used some funds from my paypal account and some funds where transfered from my maestro debit card.

I have been using paypal now for nearly 4 years (started at 15:) lol) and have never had any problems like this before, i have never been lied to on this scale and i have never had to do a charge back with any sellers.

Thanks.

azza87 , since you used partial funds within your paypal account, and a debit card, it would be very hard to do a chargeback.

Unless you used a real credit card, you can't do a chargeback with your credit company. What would happen would be that your credit company would attempt to recover the money from the seller's account if they had already claimed the money, or would deny them from claiming the money if they had not claimed it yet.

For the evidence, you could open the player somehow and take pictures of the memory chip, and provide official serial numbers from the manufacturer stating the actual capacity.

It is a 50-50 chance that if you send the player back with signed registered option, you might still not get any money back.

I have to say i am a little confused by this seller. They say they are in the UK, but they sent me emails at rather strange times! Yesterday i asked the seller for his/her address to allow me to send the item back and i got a response at half past two this morning! Do you think these people could actually be in china? I'm not sure how much time difference there is from the uk and china so i am not sure on that but half past two is a strange time to be sending emails if living in the UK...

I am unsure if i am aloud to do this, but this is the address the seller has given me. If anybody on this site lives in or around London, could you jsut confirm for me that this london address is real?


"HI
MY ADDRESS IS:
FLAT 7 FREELAND PARK
HOLDERS HILL ROAD LONDON
NW4 1LP.
MANY THANKS"

Thanks

Hi everyone, i've got some good news.

I sent the player back to the scammer last week and had kept emailing him to ask of its arrival, and he kept saying 'no it's not here'. I sent an email this morning asking what was going on etc..

Just after sending that, i got an email from paypal...

"We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favour."

ALL of the funds have been put back into my paypal account - no fees have been paid to paypal so i am quite chuffed!

about an hour after i got this email from paypal i got a response from the seller saying this:

"HI
SORRY I DIDNT CONTCAT YOU BECAUSE IAM IN CHINA IN THE MOMENT SO WANT I COME BACK I WILL SORTIT OUT FOR YOU.
MANY THANKS"

I just sent a reply stated i didnt really care if the player had arrived anymore. I've got my money back anyway so it's no skin off my nose if you get your stinkin player back.

Have a nice day :)

Lol i really am quite chuffed, i really thought i was going to make a loss on this, but i've got every penny back.

Thanks all :)

My advise is if you have paid with Paypal, go to the Resolution Center, click Report A Problem, select Item Dispute and report it as "the item I received is significantly not as described".

There is no excuse for these scams - even if the seller didn't know, etc. "factory faulty item" my butt. They usually only have to deal with maybe 1 in 30-50 complainers, so they either offer a partial refund or a replacement. They far more than make up their loss on this one item from the other 29-49 they sold.

You will probably get a negative feedback, but so what? You can put a response to their negative feedback, explaining briefly what happened. And leaving them negative feedback will hopefully alert other people to their scam.

I remember panicking when I first got a negative feedback, which I didn't deserve. I got really angry, send the guy nasty emails, etc. All for what? Now I could care less - as long as I uphold my end of a sale or purchase, then I will likely get very few negative or neutral feedbacks.

Hi, I'm in the process of escalating the dispute to a claim and requested to return the 1GB player sold as 8GB for a full refund. Could you elaborate on the 50% chance that I may not get my money back?

I did pay thru paypal via credit card. Is disputing a charge on my credit card the best chance to get all of my money back?

There is a 50-50 chance of not getting your money back if you open a dispute with paypal for the transaction. If you leave it too late too late the seller could have already transfered the funds out of his paypal account thus even if you win the dispute there is no funds in his paypal account to be sent back to you as a refund.
This happens all of the time on paypal and it has happend to me atleast 5 times in the last year with all different kinds of transactions. Some cases paypal have only been able to recover part of the funds and I have lost money that way. It is just one of the reasons i am to stop using paypal.

If you paid using paypal with your Credit Card i would definately give your Card issuer a call and ask for a charge-back for the transaction due to suspected fraud.

There should be no problems with you getting the money back when contacting your Card compnay.

I would steer clear of disputing this with paypal - especially having read some of the horror stories on this forum! By disputing the memory hack on paypal they will probably request documentation from a trusted source at your own cost to prove it which would cost around $25 (around £12.50) and then you will have to send the item back to the seller, also at your own cost and depending on your location that can be very expensive! I know that to send something to hongkong from the UK signed for (which for security reasons is needed for this sort of return) it would cost around £40!


All in all disputing this with paypal will would most probably cause you to lose more than you have already paid for your hacked player. If you read my previous posts in this thread on my experience with disputing with paypal you will see i was very very lucky in not having to prove it was hacked and had all funds refunded. But not everyone is this lucky so would not advise you to do it.

Sorry for the long post! But I hope it helps :) If you need any more advice or have any other questions i visit this topic daily so can answer anything you have to ask, I am just glad to help people that are burnt by these con artists:)

Thanks!

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Thanks azza87, much much appreciated for your informative reply. I would not be a victim if I found this site before bidding. I mean the seller has a pretty high percentile of positive feedback afterall so I didn't read much into the negative feedback probably like what most of the bidders are doing right now as we speak. With so many items on auction and so many people bidding for them, they must be legit... at least thats what I thought...

Boy was I wrong. And I didn't know there are loop holes in the ebay/paypal systems. And worse, I didn't know there are people who knowingly abuse those loopholes. I learned my lesson and learned it very well.

Since I already admitted that I would ship the item back at my own cost on the claim, and I am fair so I will give paypal the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. If it will cost me more than return shipping to get my full refund, or more time than the 50 days from my initial purchase (allowing 10 days to send the dispute to cc in writing), then I will go ahead and dispute it with my cc.

Thanks again.

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Hi !

French guy here... sorry for my bad "english" !!!

So... m pyplyer must be a 8Gb player... anb finally... it's a 2Gb player... :evil:

I use paypal to negotiating with the sellers :

me :
"Hello,
I received my player, so, the true memory capacity of my player isn't 8Gb but 2Gb !!!
This player was hacked !
This item isn't being as described, so, i ask for a full refund."

the seller :
"return to me to get repalcement
when you send back item to me pls give me the tracking no. so i can give you replacement/reapir early .
only return mp4,don't need earphone ,usb and charger by post office
understand your request and pls return the item with your full name, item no,
posting address and paypal email address inside the boxes and resend to
cheung fung ngor
hse no 18g, monte villa, 6 monte path kau to shan, shatin nt
Hong Kong
after returning pls send your full name, item no, posting address, paypal email address and trucking no from your registered mail in your next email
we will arrang the repost/repair after receiving your return player asap
don't forget the tracking no.
cheers"

I don't want return him.... the shipping cost are :shock:

so... can i hope a full refund ? What can i answer ???

thanks !

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Negotiating with the sellers,why Negotiating ,no need ,no need.
In Chinese,peole can make mistake,but can't make a same mistake for twice or more.once you can say "by accident",twice you can say "carelessness",third i say "you are on purpose "
other I like German for they are principles

Hello !

The seller want to return me 10 eur for a partial refund... So... i don't think it's the cost of a 2Go player !
What do you think about that ?
I think 20 eur is ok for a 2 Go player... so...

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

Jelly Jam, here are a couple of options. One, is to find prices on 2gb player and deduct that from the total you paid and ask the rest refunded. The other is since you got a player 1/4 the size advertised you should get 75% of price refunded.

I think both of these are reasonable requests that the seller is going to look stupid arguing with if he wants to pretend it was an honest mistake. Personally, I like option 2 since the seller knew what he was selling.


Hope this helps.

Thanx booboo773 !

So I should ask to the seller 30 eur ... lol I think 20 eur is good... and he wants give me 10 eur...
I answer him last once and I close the paypal's dispute...

Re: Negotiating with the sellers
 

If you are willing to take 20 by all means, take what you are comfortable and happy with. The negotiating might go back and forth for a while before you see some results.

These were just a couple of ways to look at your options. The final decision is something that you need to be satisfied by. 8)