RAW deal from Paypal
 

Guys this is blowing my mind. Please read the email that paypal sent me regarding my dispute. They are asking me to take the player to someone qualified in the area of hacked memory basically and that I must do it at my expense.

Does anybody have any recommedations? This is aweful, to go through this for something, i'm sure they are well aware of. I have posted the ebay link below and also the comments from the e-mail I received from paypal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5228&rd=1&rd=1

They are even asking me to have this to them within 10 days from receipt of this e-mail. I need your help, on what I should do. I do not have a clue who could look at this living in a small town like Talladega, Al abama

Email from paypal below...

Dear Storming Records,

We are in the process of investigating the following claim:

Transaction Date: Dec 10, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$69.95 USD
Your Transaction ID: 5GN19263LG593582U
Seller's Transaction ID: 2XU65969JA599964S
Case Number: PP-232-637-452
Seller's Name: CherryMasters.com
Seller's Email: auctions@hitekgear.com


In order to continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must
request documentation to support your claim that the item is damaged or
significantly not as described. Please obtain a document (such as an
estimate or invoice) from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer, repair
shop, appraiser, or another individual or organization that is qualified in
the area of the item in question (other than yourself). This document
should detail the extent of the damage or clearly explain how the item
received significantly differs from the item advertised. Please do not
proceed with any repairs or alterations to the item, as doing so will limit
PayPals ability to successfully resolve your claim, and may result in the
cancellation of your dispute. If possible, the document should include a
serial number and description of the item, and the dollar amount required
to complete the repairs necessary to correct the damage. This document must
be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
individual, business, or organization so that PayPal may contact them if
necessary.

The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this
is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United
States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please
include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address
registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim
(PP-232-637-452) so we may attach the document to your claim as quickly as
possible.

We must receive your fax within 10 days from the date of this message in
order to proceed with the investigation of your claim. If we do not receive
your fax within 10 days, your claim will be cancelled. We are unable to
grant extensions to this time period. PayPal is unable to reimburse you for
any costs or fees that may be incurred in obtaining the requested
documents. Any documents you provide may also be supplied to the seller in
your dispute.

Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience
this request may cause.

Sincerely,
Shirley
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

bigchat1 , at this stage, i think you either need to get it verified, or else paypal would end the dispute in the seller's favour.

Are there any electronics or computer stores in your local area? They should be able to help you out on the verification letter.

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

Radio Shack, but I doubt they no anything about hacked players. I suppose I could take the instructions you have posted here to them and see if they will be willing to draft a letter for me.

bigchat1 , basically what paypal wants in the verification letter is to state the actual item's status.

So if you are disputing the memory capacity (eg 1GB hacked to show 4GB), you need Radioshack to verify that the actual memory chip inside is only 1GB, and not as claimed to be 4GB.

You might also need the datasheet for either Samsung or Hynix (whichever is used in your player).
Samsung http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...Nand_Flash.pdf
Hynix http://www.hynix.com/eng/02_products...ND%20Flash.pdf

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

Just thinking out loud here,

Why not ask Paypal if they will accept a photo of the player as evidence. There should be a setup menu that displays the actual memory installed...

I wonder if you got a red player, but ordered a blue you would have to take it to a third party to verify? I bet the photo would be accepted in that case.

ikeg , this i think would be a debateable issue. If a dispute was raised due to incorrect/wrong electronics component, paypal would require the buyer to have it verified by a qualifed person. In this world, everything talks about qualification, so if you're not a qualified electronic trades person, your statement may not be valid.

On the other hand, like you have mentioned about the colour of the player. Anyone can differentiate between red and blue. So i guess a simple photo would suffice.

I suppose that the MP4 player could not be trusted to report it's memory with accuracy?

It may at least be worth questioning Paypal to see if they would accept this, why go through any more expense unless it is absolutely required. All they can say is NO.

ikeg , when the memory is hacked, both Windows OS and as well the Memory Info selection within the player's System menu would still display the hacked memory size, until removed.

But i guess you are talking about the Memory Info now displaying 1GB rather than the promised 4GB.

That's a good suggestion, perhaps bigchat1 you could try asking paypal first, if it's acceptable, it'll save you the evaluation fee at the stores.

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

I had the same problem with Paypal. I had to pay to get confirmation that the unit was hacked.
Basically, you have to decide how much you are willing to lose.

Your choices:
1. Obtain inspection from qualified third party source and if Paypal finds in your favor, you will also have to ship the unit, at your expense, to Paypal before you get a refund.

2. If the seller offers a partial refund, it may be worth taking due to the cost and aggravation if going the first route.

3. Just chalk it up to a poor Ebay and Paypal experience.

I tried the first route and came to the conclusion that I should have taken the 5 bucks the seller offered.

I don't plan on using Paypal again:
http://www.mympxplayer.org/im-done-w...al-vt3580.html

BTW, Paypal will NOT accept any documentation such as this site, or any other site proving the fraud. They will NOT accept 9 pages of negative feedback on the seller (all complaining of the same fraud). The won"t accept screen captures of the player before and after formatting it to remove hack. Bottom line - Paypal will insist that it be checked by a qualified third party.

Good Luck!

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

Thanks for taking time to read my post, and offering the suggestions. I am going to take the MP4 player to Radio Shack with all the information I have on Hacked players to see if they will help. At this point it's not about the money, it's the principal. I think about all the people who may have took their last few dollars to purchase one of the players off of ebay, to later find that they had been robbed. Not only that, but to also find that both Ebay & Paypal, have turned their backs on them.

Guys, do you think that maybe Oprah, Rush or Bill O'Reilly would be willing to listen to our story?

I tell you If I had the money, I would lease a billboard in Atlanta, and a couple other large city's detailing the facts about ebay and paypal.

Until we can get to Oprah, or one of the other's, I guess we will just stick together and continue to hit them where it hurts. One penny at a time.

Bigchat1

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

People should check eBay's/Paypal's policies -before- bidding / using their services, and ask questions. Its only after they get shafted that they realize that eBay / Paypal are scamming SOB's themselves, that lull you in to a false sense of security.

Since Paypal is scamming you (by making you pay to prove your fraud yourself, when they are more than aware of the organized fraud of mp4 scams), you should have scammed Paypal. You should have just told them you never received your player. Most seller's don't ship via tracking, especially if you don't pay for that. In which case.... you make Paypal's unjust rules work for you. It would be the seller that has to prove his case to Paypal, and if he can't provide a tracking no. to show it arrived.... too bad! He lose. You win. You get refund + free hacked player.


Of course. Rabid conservative republican figureheads are all about looking out for the little guy. I'm sure that if you called up their producers and told them the story of your hacked MP4 player that you bought on eBay, they would cancel Schwarzenneger to get you on their show.

Unfortunately, the people in the rest of the world would never see it. How about writing to ic3.gov or your representative in congress about eBay having to authenticate its sellers and take responsibility for the consumer crime that goes in within its doors. That costs less.

They're hurting all the way to the bank.... The only way to get eBay to cave is to get the government/media on their backs, big time.

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

They also asked me a independent proof about the memory hack. This is what I did:

I cheated the cheater!!! I cheated PayPal!!!

I made the document by myself, I used a fake expert name, fake adress, fake phone number, and I used some complicated lawyer language to make it look like real. And the stupid staff from PayPal eat the whole story like a child eats candy.

Hotboxx , haha! Good one! :lol:

i guess when it comes to letter heads belonging to other countries, paypal just accepts it. It'll be too costly for them to call/fax the verification company.

The buyers protection program from PayPal should be changed into Sellers protection program. Instead of helping cheated buyers to have a refund, PayPal makes the victim spending more and more money. The whole idea behind it is that the cheated buyers gives up and then PayPal does not have to give a refund.
i.e. I paid 32 Euro for a hacked 4 GB player, the expert would cost me 20 Euro and shipping the pack back to HK would cost me 24 Euro. If (!!!) I would have a full refund, the final balance would be minus 12 Euro. My conclusion is that PayPal is a part of the HK mp3 player mob.

Hotboxx, You would proberably be more out of pocket than that as PayPal would also hit you with a fee for handling the dispute.

indeed, that is the reason I adviced PayPal to change the name into sellers protection program. The victim becomes more victim like they threat the complaints now.

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

Guys I made some progress with Paypal & bad seller HITEKGEAR

Regards,
Bigchat1

Re: RAW deal from Paypal
 

:D Well Gang, I spent the $25.00 bucks took the player to a local computer repair shop and sent the invoice to paypal. They contacting me a couple of days later, via email stating to return the player to the seller using a tracking means, and they would refund my money as soon as the verification could be made.

Also, some of you may have seen my other post about filing the claim with the better business bureau (against paypal), this is what really made paypal get up off their butts and started investigating my case. The results, as of a couple of days ago, Hitekgear is no longer selling 4gb MP4 players on eBay. In fact, looking today, he has no players listed. I have also periodically been contacting people who have purchased from him to let them know what they really have on their hands (hacked memory). Boy has it worked! I have had very positive feedback, and now have a host of people filing disputes against his sell of the players.

So, I guess I have impacted his pockets more than he ever would have lost, if he would have just refunded my money back to begin with.

I have also, referred all of the people I have contacted to this site for information on how to check their players. I can tell you I am finally feeling a little better about this situation, and I owe all to this site for being the wonderful resource

Regards,
Bigchat1

Bigchat1,

REALLY GLAD that you have made an impact and got some success with your claim!!

Also glad that the site is helpful.
Hopefully it will help others too against this scammer.

Keep up the good work.