I had the same experience as many people here with
rogerlam628, but thus far, it seems my outcome was different from all or at least most of the people here.
I looked for a 4GB MP4 player on EBay. I specified only items located in Canada. These are the reasons for the particular criteria:
1) The item would arrive quickly if from Canada (I had a timeline to present it as a gift).
2) There would be no problems or brokerage charges at Customs if from Canada.
3) If there were a problem, the seller would be accountable under Canadian law and reachable.
4) A 2GB player was not use to me. I already have one. I was looking for something large enough to store data and music.
I found an auction for a 4GB player located in Canada, bid and 'won' the auction on EBay for $46USD. I paid via PayPal as soon as I got the notice that I had won. After a long while, I eventually got in touch with the vendor and a while after that he gave me a (real) tracking number. The item did arrive and initially I was pleased. However, that pleasure was very short-lived. Fortunately, I found out the truth before I left feedback.
What I got was:
1) A very long wait -- many weeks. This was a gift and it arrived too late to give.
2) A bogus package marked 'gift' from HONG KONG that managed to make it through customs. It illegally avoided duty, taxes and brokerage fees.
3) A hacked 2GB player that ceased working as soon as I loaded files on it.
4) A vendor a long, long way from Canada.
5) Liability for any duties and/or taxes on the player. Who knows when they might come knocking on my door?
I am a hacker (white hat only) and so I was able to find out what was wrong with the player (like, Google, duh). I reformatted the thing so that it at least worked. Of course, that wiped out whatever existing software was on the thing. Make sure you back anything up before you even try to use whatever you get. After loading files, but prior to formatting it, the player would not attach to my PC via USB and would not operate properly. It kept coming up with a disk error. Formatting was my only option. Note that even though it was no trick for me to find and fix this, it would have defeated most of the rest of my family and friends. For them, it would simply be broken and beyond repair.
Because I had to go looking for the fix and found that my player was a 2GB rather than a 4GB player, I also found out that rogerlam628 had done this to others before me. In fact, he appears to have done it literally thousands of times and is doing it as I write this. Right now, he has 169 active listings. Fully 100 of them are for MP4 players.
I am a reasonable person. Hey -- I'm Canadian; it's hard to make us angry. However, it is a bad idea to cross a Canadian. Ask around. I am still not even angry. However, I was a little miffed and determined to get a resolution that made the transaction unprofitable for the perpetrator.
One thing I did, even though I did not need the instructions, was buy one of the ‘Hacked Memory Scam’ documents for auction on EBay. I encourage others to do the same. It may be that the very fact EBay knew I had also purchased that document had some influence on their decisions. Just do a search on EBay for ‘mp4 scam’. As of this writing, there are 21 items active and they all tell the same story.
I contacted the vendor as per EBay’s ridiculous policies. However, the best he could come up with initially was an apology and an offer to replace the device if I sent it back at my own cost. Nice try. Legitimate shipping would cost more than the player was worth. There is also some evidence that doing that would have simply put me even further out of pocket for nothing.
Once I entered a dispute, he offered a $6USD refund and another illegal ‘gift’ package from Hong Kong or (again) I could send it back. As I understand it, generally, under common law, one has a duty to settle a dispute fairly. I actually countered with a few reasonable demands about feedback, etc and an offer to accept $10USD. I was not entirely happy with that, but I felt obliged to settle things peacefully. Even when you have been 'ripped-off' like this, you still have an obligation under law to accept a reasonable settlement. I proposed a reasonable settlement and expected it to end there.
Instead of settling, the vendor did not reply. PayPal will automatically close a dispute if you do not provide shipping information. Since they offer no other way to resolve a dispute, I eventually used the 'shipping' information facility under PayPal to communicate with them. I said that sending the item back was not possible. I said that I was simply defrauded. I said that if they did not refund or the vendor did not come back with something reasonable I would simply get my Credit Card Company to do a charge-back.
I have a feeling that the magic term 'charge-back' is what got their attention. A day or two later I got advice from PayPal that they had decided the dispute in my favor and were going to refund my money.
Today, I logged on to my PayPal account and there was an entry showing that they completely reversed the transaction. My credit card has been 'un-billed' and rogerlam628's account has had the money removed. The end.
I now have the thorny issue of the player. I am not certain what I will do. I cannot ship it back. I am disinclined to keep it, but I do not want to send it into Customs limbo with Revenue Canada either. If any people here have had feedback from RevCan or the RCMP about this sort of thing, I would appreciate hearing from them. In the meantime, I guess I will accept it as compensation for my time and trouble and hold on to it as evidence should this go further.
As things currently stand, I have left negative feedback (the truth only). I have not received negative feedback from rogerlam628 and I do not expect to. So far so good. The rogerlam628 scam/swindle/fraud ended reasonably well for me.
For the rest of you, I would say 'Get Canadian, eh?". [I’m joking] Even if you accepted some bogus settlement, you should pursue it again if you do not feel the vendor did not compensate you appropriately.
I would suggest, to anyone who has yet to settle, that he or she be persistent in pursuing a resolution that they feel is fair. Do not give up.
All three of PayPal, EBay and the vendor colluded in the 'conversion' of my property (my money) to themselves. They all acted wrongfully and they all profited by that action. It is illegal in the three jurisdictions that affect me (Canada, U.S. and Hong Kong). As far as I know, it is illegal in other jurisdictions (like the U.K. and Australia) as well. In Canada, should the RCMP elect to pursue such a thing, the maximum penalty would be ten years in prison. This criminal activity crosses State boundaries and involves a lot of money. In the United States, this could arguably fall under RICO statutes, which, IIRC, can attract 25 years or more of prison time. I did not share this with EBay, but Canada has extradition treaties with Hong Kong and the United States. I believe similar treaties hold across all three jurisdictions. Were they inclined to do so, the FBI and/or the RCMP could request (and I assume get) responsible parties from Hong Kong and elsewhere (for instance, wherever EBay and PayPal have situated the responsible parties) extradited to stand trial.
For reasons I cannot bother to fully go into here, I do not believe that 'Caveat Emptor' applies for me or for you in this case. Amongst other things, EBay/PayPal and (Moi et Vous) are not equal parties in this transaction. I was not properly able to 'caveat', if you will, because rogerlam628 was hidden behind the shield provided by EBay. The same would likely be true for your transaction.
I would not have bothered to go through the hassle except that I think that I (and you) owe some duty to our fellows to make sure that the motive (profit) for this crime disappears. If EBay and PayPal get into a loss position on these auctions, you can bet they will shut them down, quickly. The problem right now is that they currently profit by this swindle. As long as the fraud continues, EBay and PayPal make their listing fees, their currency conversion fees, PayPal fees etc.
Do not let anyone intimidate you with threats of bad feedback, cancellation of EBay/PayPal accounts or whatever. If you were ripped off by this particular scam then you were not just ripped off by the vendor. Both EBay and PayPal must know that ('knew or should have known'). The scam/fraud/swindle has been ongoing for more than a year and they have had PLENTY (PLENTY) of feedback about this. After more than a year of people being defrauded like this, the PayPal/EBay enterprise bears some responsibility for aiding and abetting this crime. They are accessories. I am not a lawyer, but I am strongly of that opinion. After all, the PayPal/EBay conglomerate actually removed my money from me.
Note that in my case, the PayPal/EBay entity is now (I believe) blameless. They addressed the problem, and as far as I know, that is all they are obliged to do. I have no cause for action either in law or morally. However, anyone who has not received a reasonable settlement still has rights and they should pursue them.
I would like to thank those who went before me by raising their voices first and I would like to wish those still making noise to keep up the good fight!
Dispute with rogerlam628
