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Some Glacier Problems and fixes.
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15th Mar 2007, 2:53 pm
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Default Some Glacier Problems and fixes.


I have a Glacier 2gb player and have had most of the problems that others have had. Here are my problems and the fix.

1st Problem: It was shutting down irregularly and was sensitive to touch. Observation: The battery contacts were not pressing hard enough on the battery.
Fix: a drop of hot melt glue at the bottom end of the battery compartment to close the gap so the battery fits tighter.

2nd Problem: Couldn't drill down into menus. It would go back to the top menu when going from / into multiple menue's.
Observation: When drilling down into the / with multiple sub menus the player would jump back up to the top menu before I could select a sub folder.
Fix: When drilling down and you get to the / and hit the M button before it has time to drop down hit the >>| or |<< key. It will then drop down and move down one folder in that sub menu but wont pop back up to the top.

3rd Problem: Glacier wouldn't charge.
Observation: plugging in the charger or USB plug I would get connected and it would show the battery charging for 1 or 2 seconds then stop. It wouldn't charge.The battery read 2.7v which is full discharged. I found that the usb connector on the Glacier was not making good contact on some of the pins. Holding the cable down or up or pushed in would result in charging.
Fix: As mentioned in another thread the pins might be pushed back into the body. I opened the Glacier and pushed all the pins back tight against the connector from the inside and put a drop of hot glue on them to keep them from pushing back in. It then took a full charge. If the battery get below 2.7v you may have to charge it in a phone or by other means.

Some information about Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries. Unlike Nicad and Nimh which use a constant current charger. Li-ion needs a constant voltage charger the current will drop as the cells charge. Normally a charger charges with a voltage of 4.2v. at 0.5C which means 1/2 of the current that the battery supplies. In other words a battery with a current capability of 720ma should be charged with a charge capable of 1/2 of that or 360ma. You can use more current but don't get much for your troubles unless you have special batteries like I use in my electric model airplane where I use 10C or 10 times the battery current for a fast charge. However this causes the batteries to get very hot and requires a special charger. Here are some articles I found searching Google for Li-Battery charging. I clipped them. You can use a 500ma charger but it is not necessary. The one that comes with it works just fine.

Most cells are charged to 4.20 volts with a tolerance of +/?0.05V/cell. Charging only to 4.10V reduced the capacity by 10% but provides a longer service life. Newer cell are capable of delivering a good cycle count with a charge to 4.20 volts per cell.

Increasing the charge current does not shorten the charge time by much. Although the voltage peak is reached quicker with higher charge current, the topping charge will take longer.

-The charge current of Li-ion should be moderate (0.5C for cobalt-based lithium-ion). The lower charge current reduces the time in which the cell resides at 4.20V. It should be noted that a 0.5C charge only adds marginally to the charge time over 1C because the topping charge will be shorter. A high current charge tends to push the voltage up and forces it into the voltage limit prematurely.
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Old 15th Mar 2007, 8:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylwill";p=&quot View Post
I have a Glacier 2gb player and have had most of the problems that others have had. Here are my problems and the fix.

1st Problem: It was shutting down irregularly and was sensitive to touch. Observation: The battery contacts were not pressing hard enough on the battery.
Fix: a drop of hot melt glue at the bottom end of the battery compartment to close the gap so the battery fits tighter.

2nd Problem: Couldn't drill down into menus. It would go back to the top menu when going from / into multiple menue's.
Observation: When drilling down into the / with multiple sub menus the player would jump back up to the top menu before I could select a sub folder.
Fix: When drilling down and you get to the / and hit the M button before it has time to drop down hit the &gt;&gt;| or |&lt;&lt; key. It will then drop down and move down one folder in that sub menu but wont pop back up to the top.

3rd Problem: Glacier wouldn't charge.
Observation: plugging in the charger or USB plug I would get connected and it would show the battery charging for 1 or 2 seconds then stop. It wouldn't charge.The battery read 2.7v which is full discharged. I found that the usb connector on the Glacier was not making good contact on some of the pins. Holding the cable down or up or pushed in would result in charging.
Fix: As mentioned in another thread the pins might be pushed back into the body. I opened the Glacier and pushed all the pins back tight against the connector from the inside and put a drop of hot glue on them to keep them from pushing back in. It then took a full charge. If the battery get below 2.7v you may have to charge it in a phone or by other means.

Some information about Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries. Unlike Nicad and Nimh which use a constant current charger. Li-ion needs a constant voltage charger the current will drop as the cells charge. Normally a charger charges with a voltage of 4.2v. at 0.5C which means 1/2 of the current that the battery supplies. In other words a battery with a current capability of 720ma should be charged with a charge capable of 1/2 of that or 360ma. You can use more current but don't get much for your troubles unless you have special batteries like I use in my electric model airplane where I use 10C or 10 times the battery current for a fast charge. However this causes the batteries to get very hot and requires a special charger. Here are some articles I found searching Google for Li-Battery charging. I clipped them. You can use a 500ma charger but it is not necessary. The one that comes with it works just fine.

Most cells are charged to 4.20 volts with a tolerance of +/?0.05V/cell. Charging only to 4.10V reduced the capacity by 10% but provides a longer service life. Newer cell are capable of delivering a good cycle count with a charge to 4.20 volts per cell.

Increasing the charge current does not shorten the charge time by much. Although the voltage peak is reached quicker with higher charge current, the topping charge will take longer.

-The charge current of Li-ion should be moderate (0.5C for cobalt-based lithium-ion). The lower charge current reduces the time in which the cell resides at 4.20V. It should be noted that a 0.5C charge only adds marginally to the charge time over 1C because the topping charge will be shorter. A high current charge tends to push the voltage up and forces it into the voltage limit prematurely.
You seem to know a lot about these batteries. I like that. I can't quite figure out though, why you say the Glacier's 250-300mah charger is good enough, since you also say the charger should be half the mah of the battery. Well the Nokia battery is about 750mah, maybe 800, so the Glaciers charger is less than half that.
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Old 16th Mar 2007, 9:40 am
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This is a description of a most basic Li-Ion charger:

If a Li-Ion battery is discharged, the charger starts the charging cycle at 4,2v at the maximum current the battery can consume. If you charger only delivers 10ma then it will take 10ma if it delvers 1000ma then the battery will take 1000ma. As the battery gets charged up the internal resistance of it goes up and draws less and less current until it doesn't draw any (or very little). Those numbers are recommended numbers. The only real difference is the time it takes to charge will be a little longer with 0.3C then 0.5C or 1C

Think of it like your old NiCads or NiMh batteries. The more current you pump in the faster they charge but they will still charge with 10ma but it takes overnight instead of a couple of hours.

I have built Li-Ion Chargers. You build a regulated voltage supply and set the max current. If you put an amp meter in series with the + terminal you will see that when fully discharged it will take all the current the supply can pump out enough to drop the voltage but as it charges the current keeps dropping and the voltege goes up until it reaches 4.2v from 2.7v which is discharged. The reason is that it draws all the current you can supply which drops the voltage until the battery gets up to the 4.2v then the current starts dropping. This is also why its important that if you could supply a lot of current to watch the temp of the battery, because if its shorted and you can supply enough current, it gets hot and it could catch fire and explode and they do. Although with low current its very very rare. The Sony recall was because some batteries in the pack could short which cause the above problem. Also remember that a laptop pack is several batteries in parallel which ups the current as well as series to up the voltage. SO you get high voltages at high current. This is why there is a circuit board inside a laptop battery, for safety shutdown and to regulate the charge. These little cell battery's don't have these. Were only dealing with one cell here.

What I have described is the most basic Li-Ion charger, what we have. A good Li-Ion charger is much more complex.

If you need more information do a google search. Also a good place to start is an Electric Model Airplane forum. Where their pushing the limits of Li-Poly and Ion batteries. This and the auto industry is driving the Li-Ion battery market. I use 7.4V at more than 2 amps for my small airplane. I sometimes get my batteries from old laptop packs. I look for hi current small batteries and wire them in series parallel to get the voltage and current. Li- Poly batteries are small pouches that can be squashed and molded, they are very soft and squishie. Unlike Li-Ion which is hard and stiff.
http://www.rcgroups.com/batteries-and-chargers-129/
Here is a partial write up.

Li-ion battery charging

Li-xx (Li-ion or Li-ion polymer) batteries are charged in three stages. The qualification and precharge stage verifies if the battery's temperature is between the limits recommended by the cell manufacturer, typically 10° to 45°C.

Charge is suspended until the cell reaches normal operating temperature. If the battery is deeply discharged (below 3.0 V), a precharge current in the range of 10% of the fast-charge current is applied that safely raises the battery voltage prior to the fast-charge stage. A safety timer helps to suspend charge if the battery voltage does not come up during a certain period of time. Charge qualification and precharge increase safety and cycle life of the battery.

In stage two, the battery is charged with a constant current of 1C or less, "C" being the rated capacity of the Li-xx cell. Once the battery has reached its specified voltage limit of 4.1 or 4.2 V, about 70% of the battery capacity is typically replenished.

Stage three charges the battery with a constant voltage. To maximize safety and capacity, this voltage needs to be regulated to ±1%. During the voltage regulation phase, the charge current tapers down, and in most cases charge is terminated when the charge current reaches about 10% of the fast-charge current level, or C/10. An internal charge timer might provide a backup safety for charge termination.
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Old 16th Mar 2007, 3:30 pm
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylwill";p=&quot View Post

2nd Problem: Couldn't drill down into menus. It would go back to the top menu when going from / into multiple menue's.
Observation: When drilling down into the / with multiple sub menus the player would jump back up to the top menu before I could select a sub folder.
Fix: When drilling down and you get to the / and hit the M button before it has time to drop down hit the &gt;&gt;| or |&lt;&lt; key. It will then drop down and move down one folder in that sub menu but wont pop back up to the top.
I noticed this same problem after I loaded up my Glacier full of MP3's.
It worked fine when I had only a few folders, but after adding about 20 or so more it started to jump back to the music screen on its own.
Anyone got a fix for this?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 9th Apr 2007, 2:45 pm
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Posts: 5
Default Re: Some Glacier Problems and fixes.

/\/\/\ Im getting the same thing. Is there a solution?
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