Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Hi

Looking for mp4 firmware upgrades i've founded that there are always problems with them. I'm new in this forum and i don't know yet whether there is already a proposal to write our own firmware. Altough it seems a heavy task, when sharing it with hundreds of programmers it becomes an easy duty. In the web there are schematics and datasheets of the circuits used in the mp4 gadgets.

I'm electronic engineer and i have experience programming 8 bit microcontrollers and dsp's (there is a Z80 inside an mp4 "atj2085"). I'm shure there are a lot of brillant people here, so the question has been opened =)

In the long run it would be a futile effort. There are so many different players, so many different firmware types and versions for too many chips and boards. You would have to write literally hundreds if not thousands of different firmware types for players that are constantly changing in specs. Something i wouldn't want to do.

If someone bricks thier player due to flashing incorrect firmware, thats thier fault. Why waste time writing firmware that only going to be compatible in a handful of players at any given time?

There's swan project which aims to deliver open source super customizable firmware: http://wiki.s1mp3.org/index.php/Swan_Project
But there's not much progress. You can read mailing lists if you are interested: http://lists.s1mp3.org/pipermail/s1mp3-dev/

Actually all the players i've seen 'til now are based in the ATJ20xx mpu, including those that only plays mp3 (usb dongle). That means that having written the core code it is only a matter of modifying certains lines in the code (and then compile it) to made it available for other models (hw core doesn't change drastically). Think about this: although there are dozens of brands that manufacturer handhelds (eg PALM) all of them are using the PalmOs operating system, so if you are gonna compile for one brand then you do something like this

#include ".\os\clie.h"

but for another brand you use this instead:

#include ".\os\palmspring.h"

and so on.

That is, no matter which brand you are using, all of them are based in the same mpu, an ARM 32 bit. With this gadgets is the same, all of them has inside some member of the ATJ20xx family. Even we may standarized some firmaware and track them in any moment.

Whar do you guys think?? =)

I think you should think about joining the s1mp3.org team they are already doing it

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Hi

Thanks for your interest in the topic. I'm embedded system programmer, which means I have the skills and knowledge for programming this kind of stuff, although, however, we need to set up several things before we can start. Among other things i'm writting an open-platform real time kernel that we may use.

As i've read so far there is a Z80 mpu inside the ATJ20xx, but there is also a DSP (i programm dsp as well). The first thing we must do is to get the tools for compiling and downloading programms into the atj. Once done we'll be on the road to do anything we want. I guess there are C free compilers for the Z80, and the JTAG interface is not hard to build a home-made one. There are free tools to download the image to the mp4, so it's just a matter of getting all this stuff together to start with.

As far as i read in s1mp3.org there is not such a project =( (they want to make reverse engineering)

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

This may help, information about the Z80 CPU:
http://www.zophar.net/tech/files/z80_faq.html

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Lets begin from the begining.
Programs for flash memory:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi....htm#nandflash
Most used memories:
http://www.hynix.com/eng/02_products/03_flash/index.jsp
http://www.micron.com/products/nand/
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...lash/index.htm

I have absolutely no knowlege about programming, but I can be of help by testing your firmware with my MP4 player, it's a 220x176 pixels 1GB atj2093 with 3.6v battery... good luck with your project, I can also do stuff for the interface (in photoshop/paint), I doubt it will be very original though...

Testing new firmware will be very dangerous for the first time.
So I purpose to post your contacts down here if you would like to test new programs for your player.
Testing firmware will be not so soon as you think.
Write down information about your player (screen size, memory, resolution), information about your PC (Operating system - Windows, Linux etc.) & contact information (Use some bug - for example mail adress Mail%mail.ua to prevent a spam)

OK for the SLOOOOWWW ones in this forum... Can you translate this into "everyday language".. I did not understand a word u guys said... LOOOL!! =) (no offense)

p.s. i will be happy to test it out, once i know what u guys r doing...

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

2 d12nv:
We are try to began develop an open source firmware for different players. Also we want to develop usefull tools for player & test them with help of forum users like on http://forum.easydigi.com/ or s1mp3project.

So if anyone have an interest idea, usefull skills or would like to help or test new programms - post down.

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Thanks for everyone that is interested in this new adventure. Not only do we need programmers but also people that help in doing some important stuff, like testers, art, fresh ideas, source code sustainers (eg. upload in sourceforge), managing a groups (like yahoo groups or google groups), webmasters, reverse engineering (eg. getting the electrical schematic directly from a mp4 palyer), moral support, etc, and globally speaking anything that can be helpful for the project.

A little effort multiplied 1000 times becomes a big one =)

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

I can be tester and don't worry I have a full backed up firmware (I recovered my player from ADFU mode) so if it fu*ks up I can bring it back...

also I'm from Ukraine so you won't have to break your brain trying to speak english if you'r not so good at it... I also speak french and russian.

Thanks for you suport Sersoft, however i speak neither french nor russian, so i'll still breaking my brain writting in english =) (i speak spanish). Anyway it's better for the project to keep writting in english so many people can join us without the language wall.

I've doing my duty, and i haven't found yet a free z80 C compiler, but in the middle term i've been thinking in the arquitecture as a whole, so i already have a clearer picture of the project with the dificulties we must solved.

Some things we need for starting with:
1. ATJ20xx documentation
2. Z80 free C compiler
3. Schematics for common mp4 players
4. Maybe start a group (yahoo, google, here if possible, etc) to continue with this idea

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

I create web page for next development http://mympxplayer.narod.ru/
Also I create a forum without necessory registration http://mympxplayer.vdforum.ru/
Have you any idea about the name of project?

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

:lol:

Great job Kivin, i've registered my self already =) ... i have no much imagination for creating names, but some come to my mind right now:

mp4Xpanded
NextMp4
Mp4Reloaded
Mp4Ever
Mp4Smart

I hope to have more ideas soon =)

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

awesome dudde!!!!

narod is very slow here in canada may I suggest awardspace? also free, has FTP support and allows more than one site per account

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Yes. It would be greate. We can create a mirror.

i could do the GUI work with the new firmwares..

I have all the programs and know what looks good..

kool

You guys put together £300 and you can hire a chinese guy to do it for you , and he/she would do a great job , you could get it to configure itself , you put the firmware onto the player via flashing it onto there 9 You make sure you have alot of battery life) , you would choose the right one for the correct actionchipset , then it flashed throguh all the drivers for the buttons and you hold down the menu button , as soon as it detects a imput it saves that config , then it does through all the screen drivers and as soon as the screen shows a image you press the menu button , then it goes through all the other drivers neccasary , radio ect till setup is complete , this firmware would be rather large but it can delete parts of it that are no longer nessasary ( The firmware can edit its own flash) once all that process is done you have a working firmware and you only need a menu system ect coded , a universal firmware for all actionchipset players...

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

I posted a similar thread here: http://mympxplayer.org/rockbox-open-...re-vt5810.html about trying to port the Rockbox open-source jukebox firmware to these generic/"chipod" players. I'm not a programmer, but it seems like Rockbox would be easier to port, because you do not need to write a whole new firmware for the player, just patch it so it will boot the Rockbox software. You should check it out and see what you think: www.rockbox.org

Thanks Dr. Strangelove, very useful info, I'll take it a look closer =)

rockbox is designed for proper players , these shitty amv players are single processor pieces of rubbish , it will not be possible to do that. not enough processing power

yeah rockbox usually works on Ipod nanos or creative players

for your informatin iPods and other non-cheap players most have the same CPU as your game boy advance and nintendo DS which is very customizeable and powerful(for an mp3 player) and the chipods are far from that... that's why we can't put rockbox/linux on it.. if anybody does a linux port to s1mp3 it will only be the console prompt (like msDOS) no more

Ahh, I see. I'm not really familiar with the various processors involved with these and other media players. I knew the others had heftier hardware, but didn't know the generics/chipods were so stripped down.

Still, it shouldn't be completely impossible to get Rockbox ported to this type of processor I wouldn't think. Because of the lower hardware capabilities, it seems like you could probably strip down Rockbox quite a bit (we'll be polite and say "streamline" it :D) for these lesser players. It would be interesting at the very least to even get something like Rockbox to boot with basic functionality, just as a proof of concept. The only reason I brought Rockbox up is that it seems quite portable, and there's already a pretty significant code base to draw from as opposed to rewriting everything from scratch.

No , its impossible to port rockbox to this player , No powerfull enough , I doubt it would even load the boot

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

well it may not work on amv players, however maybe rockchip has a chance.

ive already begun a post to help develope a FW for rockchip mp3/mp4 players here, and any help would be greatly appreciated.

PS: has anyone looked into embedded linux?

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

Chipods have very limited resources, they have an in-built 8051 8 bits processor whereas iPods have a 32 bits ARM processors. However we must exploit the advantages of that processor (everything is inside like mp3 and mp4 decoder etc). What we want to do is to improve the performance of such devices, no one expects to develop something better than iPods (no with those limited hardware resources). Among other things, been us the owners of the code we may assist each other when problems arise and don't sit waiting that some chinese guy do the job. By the way we don't need to hire a chinese programmer for doing the things we want (we can see what they already do =( )

I haven't founded yet a C compiler for the 8051, however I'm still working in the software framework. I'm programming a backend for the GUI (the message handler) so if someone is writing a GUI we can talk =)

i could write a gui for the new firmwares but not for a program..

ok say we do "crack" the firmware on these players and write a new fiemware... would it be possible to then watch and view different file formats such as MP4, DivX, AVI and ROMS??????

You guys are exspecting way too much from these players

Rockbox
"PS: has anyone looked into embedded linux?"

Pfft , I think the firmwaare that is currently on the player makes excelent use of the 8 bit processor ,
And no it wont be possible to Play other video formats , The AMV is hardware decoded(I think) So unless you guys change all the processors you wont be able to Play other video.

Whoever originally coded the firmware did a brilliant Job of it. I think the main thing you guys are complaining about is the strange skins , Not the firmware. The firmware will not be much improvable and a decent skin editor for 9.50 should be made , Rather than new firmware.

"...and a decent skin editor for 9.50 should be made.."

NOOO!!! thats the thing MATE!! IVE been wating for nearly one whole f**king year! The extractor is "still" in progress... PFFTT!! my a**...

THIS SUCKS!! how long does it take to make a bloody extractor.. i know these ppl make these programs for free... but COMON!!

d12nv, I have no idea about coding\programming, z80 assembler\disassemblers and compilers and obviously you do not either otherwise you would have thrown together an app to solve the problem.

Based on the World Population clock there are approximatly 6,605,046,992 people in the world and to the best of my knowledge out of all of them only 2 (1 Chinese, 1 German) have ever written apps for firmware extraction from Action chipset players.

This tells me that either no one really gives a damn or it is a lot harder than most people think.

Both authors have managed to get their apps to work on firmware versions up to 9.0.43, but neither have been able to produce an update that will work on anything above, so I would assume there is a very real stumbling block in the way.

It is the same deal with the firmware, a group of people from different parts of the world have been working together on writing a new universal firmware for almost 2 years and so far they managed to execute a basic C+ "hello world" program and still do not have a complete understanding of the workings of the current firmware. Either they are not very clever or once again it is a very complex and slow process of trial, error and discovery.

I do not know when a new app will be released if ever, but I understand your frustration with wanting to mod your player not to mention all those poor sods with dead players that are slitting their wrists.

If you understood my frustration you wouldn't go about typing up this huge response. I don't believe that there are only 2 people who can write extraction applications for these players, but going back to what you said, i believe "no one really gives a damn"...

THINK ABOUT THIS:
"To the best of my knowledge" there are roughly 300 days in 10 months, so thats 7200 hours... with the exception of hours sleeping and going to work/school, holidays and Sundays, thats 1800 hours and 1, 080, 000 minutes... now are YOU telling me it REALLLLLY takes that long to develop an extractor for these players.... An full extractor and a NEW firmware was developed for the PSP in less this time by ONE person (Dark_aleX) AND HE dogged Sony who have many staff working on these things!!!!

Frankly, i believe that they are taking the PISS out of us, so we can donate to them... just take a look at the s1res tool which had a 60 second boot up! if you donated, that start up time would be removed!!!

NOW this may sound quite unfair, and i know that they are developing this for free... but does it seriously cost that much and take that long to make this program???!!!

Re: Why don't we try to write our own firmware??
 

I realize this thread seems to be a bit dead, but if anyone is still looking for free Z80 and/or 8051 c cross-compilers, here's a couple:

http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/
and
http://tack.sourceforge.net/

baudtender